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That eternal carp war

Discussion in 'Chewing the fat' started by Old fisho, Oct 28, 2019.

  1. diesel

    diesel Well-Known Member

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    I think there may have been a lot of human help in the spread of carp similar to the spread of rabbits. The 2 locations shown on the map outside of the red zone, Lake Sorell in Tasmania and the Perth Wetlands support my theory that they were transported vast distances and released by humans and not just by natural progression.

    It's hard to say what would motivate people to release an alien species into a new area, but it has been happening for yonks with a lot of different species of plants, insects, turtles, mammals and fish. Many of these releases have been Government sanctioned and one only has to look at cane toads and African Buffel grass to see the environmental damage caused due to stupid decisions made by people in high places.
     
  2. Madfisher

    Madfisher Well-Known Member

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    Noel like foxes, trout etc our English forebears also brought in european carp, but it was a fairly benign strain( called the prospect strain) and never really spread in over 80 years. It was the Boolara strain imported by a vic fish farmer from Germany that let the cat outa the bag. This was a very potent and virile strain and spread like wildfire. More recently Koi have establised populations and resorted to there wide natural colours. Also interbreeding with the other strains. The most agressivie and easily caught strain are the ones in Wyangala and Burrinjuck, which over the summer months will even hit Cod lures.
     
  3. blair

    blair Well-Known Member

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    Geez very informative CC.
    CC : resident carp proffesor!
     
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  4. blair

    blair Well-Known Member

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    Aha! Thought so! bloody Victorians again! releasing Nazi fish into our pristine waterways!
     
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  5. diesel

    diesel Well-Known Member

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    What you southerners need is mud lizards to combat the carp problem, both freshies and salties and when I get back to the Carp Free Zone of the north I will approach one of our more colourful politicians, Bob Katter and run the idea past him of exporting crocs to the southern states....he has been wanting to cull the salties for years.
     
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  6. Old fisho

    Old fisho Well-Known Member

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    Jeff, I think almost 100% of the spread is by people. It's impossible for them to travel overland. They're not eels. People found the small ones were good bait for bigger fish and when finished their day's fishing, the surplus bait was simply tipped into the water. BOOOOOM!!!! We had carp everywhere.
    Noel
    My two and six pence worth. anyway
     
  7. CornaCarpio

    CornaCarpio Well-Known Member

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    Is this what Queenslanders' call Carp? o_O
     
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  8. Madfisher

    Madfisher Well-Known Member

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    Sadly Noel I think they can travel overland. Now this is not scientfic fact, but the observations of one who has spent a lifetime of observation while fishing and talking to lots of cockies. It seemed carp where appearing in dams severals ks from a carp infested river HOW. And above the flood zone. Also once carp are directly below a major dam its only a few years to when they make the big jump. Now if you watch carp spawning they do it in the shallow marches often only inches deep. Birds of all descriptions use theses same marches to feed also. I believe some eggs get tangled around some birds legs, they then fly off to a new water course and presto. Again no scientific evidence, but its my gut feeling.
    This year came the first confirmed sightings of carp in Windermere.
    Cheers Pete
     
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  9. diesel

    diesel Well-Known Member

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    No CC, a mud lizard is also known as a snapping handbag or to be more precise, crocodile.

    You need them down there, it makes fishing far more interesting when one of them beasties pops up a couple of metres in front of you.
     
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  10. blair

    blair Well-Known Member

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    Crocs would be good for keeping fishermen away from my fish, also would be good to teach people "situational awareness" and be alert when near water , brilliant idea diesel.
    As long as the crocs promise to only eat carp and enviromentilists.
     
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  11. CornaCarpio

    CornaCarpio Well-Known Member

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    I was going to say, maybe these QLD 'mud lizards' could be a solution to our VIC 'mud sucker' problem?
     
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  12. Old fisho

    Old fisho Well-Known Member

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    Pete, for the first time ever, I'm going to disagree with you and we won't do a 'Chilly' and quit because we disagree on some little thing. Like all fly fishers, I share your belief in observation. Without that, you'll never make a serious fly fisher. As you are probably aware, I have always supported your ideas and comments but have to disagree with carp being able to travel over land and you correctly declare that it is not a scientific fact. Though they don't have scales on their bellies as do snakes; eels are more than capable of ambulation on land and they can remain upright in their natural way. Generally speaking, most fish will fall onto their side. (Flathead and flounders obviously excepted).We once found a large eel a fair distance from the river and it was in good health. My reading confirms that a few fish, mud skippers being the most common in Australia, CAN remain out of water for a few days and even climb trees. There's no suggestion or indication that carp are capable of this. Nor is their any indication that they have ever travelled on land as your cockies seem to indicate. They have no physical capability of ambulation. Plenty of fish walk on the sea bed, using pectoral fins that have evolved toward that over centuries, but they can't walk on land. The common butterfly gurnard is an example. Living in a neutral buoyancy water world prohibit most fish from living on land. For not dissimilar reasons, divers wear weights to create neutral buoyancy and they'd be damn heavy to carry all day on land. I fully support the theory of eggs being transmitted by birds as the eggs are sticky, and a fish of around 5-6kg can carry between one and two million eggs.
    Noel
    Not a self professed guru on anything
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  13. diesel

    diesel Well-Known Member

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    A phenomenon that occurs on rare occasions is fish falling from the sky. Don't laugh, it has happened in places during extremely violent storms and this could very well contribute to the spread of carp, whether it be tiny fish or eggs that get lifted into the upper atmosphere. If tornadoes can lift buildings, then it is possible for fish to get airborne during a freaky weather event.

    Just my opinion - no scientific reference to corroborate my theory.

    Jeff
     
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  14. Old fisho

    Old fisho Well-Known Member

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    True....
    How do millions of fish get into Lake Eyre after being dry for years?
     
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  15. diesel

    diesel Well-Known Member

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    A lot get washed down from the channel country Noel, along with probably millions if not billions of eggs, but maybe a certain percentage are deposited by storms. Strangely though, the birds like pelicans, terns etc seem to know that the fish will appear even before any water comes down the Cooper or Diamantina - we have a lot to learn still about the natural world.

    Jeff
     
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  16. Rod Bender

    Rod Bender Well-Known Member

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    When I read Pete's post originally I assumed he was talking about carp eggs being transported overland by birds. I don't think he was saying that carp have the ability to engage 4x4 mode. That is my understanding of his post anyway.

    Not an expert on Lake Eyre but I guess when a lake fills, fish will come downstream with the flow.
    Cheers
    Team Bender
    Sitting at IGA Cafe....should be at work!
     
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  17. Madfisher

    Madfisher Well-Known Member

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    Noel it is the sign of two well balanced intelligent people when they can disagree on a point, but still go and have a beer afterwards and have a laugh . Although I am a little confused as in the end You seem to support my observations. Fisheries think the eggs would dry out, but more are coming around to my way of thinking. lol
    cheers Pete
     
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  18. Old fisho

    Old fisho Well-Known Member

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    I have read in my time wasting that carp eggs can survive in dried out waterholes for up to seven years. That's a scary thought.
    Noel
    Being cheeky I can say you're mad and you won't get cranky Pete?
    But you know I wouldn't.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
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  19. Madfisher

    Madfisher Well-Known Member

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    Noel , a little off topic but your yarn about the eel reminded me of a good story. Back in about 2008 I think when lake St Clair started to refill after the last drought, Michael and myself decided to do a trip up there in the school Holidays. Michael would have been 13. As the water had come up over new ground lots of eels could be seen patrolling right on the bank, and Michael become quite obsessed with catching one. A lot of these eels where huge close to 5 feet and as thick as my thigh.
    I had no problem with him trying to catch one, EXCEPT he wanted to take it home to show Mum BUGGAR.
    That would be all i need a huge slimy eel in my good esky, so i made him a deal.
    If he could land it totally unaided he could take it home. The only problem was he was smart enough to put away his light spin rod and walk back to the boat and grab my bait caster, damm.
    He baited up with a bit of fish guts and it was not long before he hooked up, it gave him a torid fight even on 12lb maxima, but he eventually got it on the bank. Then he discovered eels can fight just as well on dry land as they can in the water lol. Thank God it snapped the line.
    By way of compensation he did hook a huge Bass on a surface fly 50cm to the fork, and i let him take his trophy home./
    Tight lines guys.
    Pete
     
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  20. blair

    blair Well-Known Member

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    Eggs sticking to birds and small fished rained down sounds feasible to me, On a hunting trip at Brewarrina on first day we observed carp in an almost completely dry Bogan river in very shallow pools in the shade lying in the mud whith their backs sticking out in the air. 2nd day pools even less water carp still alive, 3rd day pools pretty well dried up carp lying In mud still very alive I was thinking no wonder they bloody thrive they can whithstand probably more than any fish, 4th day walking past mud hole full of carp flapping about and didn't have to keep quite any more as we has had found any wild pigs in the area so we started grinning and 4 of us unloaded on the carp whith our centerfires, mud and bits of fish flew everywhere, fish meat was hanging off the bushes and trees around us and my mate was complaining because a big bit of carp meat went down the back off his shirt and he got carp meat and mud all over his new remmington 7600 pump action, I remember him saying "how many bloody bullets does that bloody 30/30 hold!"i had a 30/30, very effective carp stopper!
     
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